YOU KNOW WHAT I ABSOLUTE DESPISE?

[taranova]

What a douche. I completely agree though. Personally I'm thankful I live in a relatively gay-friendly community. :/ St. Louis has its own gay district, with lesbian bookstores and designer cupcake shops. LMAO

[PuzzleChick]

@ Pluto: From one ace to another I offer you cake and non-invasive cyber hugs. *hugs* I've had a problem with that guy for a long time. =/ It saddens me, because the It Gets Better campaign is really a nice idea and I want to be able to support it, but it's tough when the leader of said campaign claims we don't exist or that there's something wrong with us. We get enough of that everywhere else, someone who fights for equal rights should be someone we'd expect to be safe with. Alas.

People like him are also the douchnozzles currently throwing insults over the whole sexual/asexual privilege/are-asexuals-allowed-to-identify-as-queer debacle. I don't understand. Why the hell are both sides being so cruel? We should be allies supporting each other's struggles. As an ace with glbt friends who I very much relate to and support, and who I would hope support me, I hate that there are people trying to draw lines.

[PuzzleChick]

ETA: I would like to apologize for the emo rant I put here this morning. I shouldn't try to put anxiety into words when I'm still half asleep, it comes out very melodramatic. I've edited it to try to make it more general "This is a sucky feeling indeed, yes?" and less "excuse me while I bawww."

I despise being helpless, especially if my best friend in the whole world, someone I quite honestly consider a soulmate, is feeling worried or down. I can deal with just about anything EXCEPT seeing my friends sad, and her especially because a best friend holds a pretty important place in my heart. When she's hurt, I'm hurt. I will always do my best to help people and try to be content with that, but I don't feel like it's enough. I want to fix things and hand everyone the happiness I feel they deserve. When I can't, and I'm forced to face that I'm just one person and that I can't stop hard times from happening to loved ones, it sucks and I don't like it. =|

[taranova]

-hug-

I'm a lezzie that supports aces!!

[bespecledcow]

Kind of going off of this subject, the other day in class a debate erupted. Now I'm not one to force my beliefs on other people or to say that their beliefs are shit. I also have no issue with someone being religious, even though I am atheist. However, I have a huge problem with intolerance. People like this guy you all have been talking about, and all but four (not counting me) in my math class show that intolerance to the extreme. And it pisses. Me. Off. ALOT.


This debate was about- you guessed it- gays! My table, (consisting of me, my friend H, my friend E, and friend-in-the-sense-she's-nice-but-I-hardly-know-her M) were for gay marriage, along with the teacher. Everyone else in the room- meaning twenty two mostly Mormon kids- were not.

It all started when M brought up how she had seen this thing on youtube about gay penguins, and how she thought them nuzzling was cute. I mentioned that I'd seen a similar news bit about two male penguins in a zoo that had been living together in the same den for ten years (and were frequently seen nuzzling) and I talked about how gays were found in nature everywhere, and mentioned that it wasn't surprising considering that it was a genetic thing. M and E were surprised at this, and asked where I had heard it was a gene. I told them it was in the documentary Religilous, wherein a scientist talked about discovering the gene that made people gay. M and E talked about how cool that was, and how it made a lot of sense, while H backed up my claims with some google info.

Inevitably, some people at another table heard this, and before we knew it a debate sprang to life.

As it is, I can't remember all the details of what was said, but here are key points:

-First, they stipulated, even after we told them about the gene and the animals being gay, that it was a choice in the sense that they could walk away from it and choose to be straight, even if they were born gay. In other words, pretend they werent gay, get married to someone they weren't attracted to, so that other people would be happy. *controls the urge to growl*
-Secondly, they said that gays shouldn't get married because they couldn't contribute to society by providing children. Here is a sample of conversation about this:
Me, H, E, and M: "What about adoption?"
Them: Its not contributing to society, and there wouldn't be enough children for them all anyway.
Umm...considering how many people are born per second, (about four, in case you're wondering) and on top of that considering how many already don't have homes, there would likely even be some left over after the adoption process was through. But wait, raising a child that was either abandoned, or whose parents are dead or couldn't take care of them isn't contributing to society, how silly of me. -_-
Another quote for you all:
Me: That is the exact same thing as saying that someone with infertility is also not contributing to society and shouldn't get married then!
Them: No, because that wasn't their choice- (yes they said that AGAIN)
Me, H, E, and M: Neither is being gay.
*cannot resist urge anymore. GROWL*
-Thirdly, they said that children brought up by parents of the same sex would be unhappier than those brought up by heterosexual parents, because they need the presence of a mom and a dad in order to turn out the best. So, single parents suck in comparison too, I guess. Y'know, those who escaped an abusive relationship, those whose spouse DIED, or those that just couldn't work it out are doomed to not raise their kids as well as a mother AND a father. Guess the day after the funeral/running away/papers are signed they should just start looking for spouse number two. Forget that not every mom/dad household is perfect. Forget that just as many gay parents love their children as straight parents do. Another sound bit for you all:

Them: And think of the child. They would grow up and see that, see that gay marriage is okay-
Us: So?

My hands were shaking at this point, I think. *growling escalates*
-Fourthly, they continued to deny that they had anything against gay people. That it was NOT descrimination, but that society as a whole didn't want gay marriage and that makes it okay. So, when society as a whole thought that anyone who wasn't a white male was 'lower' than themselves, that made it okay too? No, no, its not like that at all! They just want to preserve marriage, they just want society to continue to function (and let all those little orphans continue to wait for a straight mommy and daddy) and, and-
-And of course, that being gay was morally wrong because their prophet said so.

Please excuse the following capsrape. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH

And I know that these arguments may not be new and I know that I should just ignore them, but, these are people I grew up with! People that go to school with people who are openly gay! They are the kind people that open doors for you and always say please and they are SMART and NICE to everyone, even the assholes, and it makes me want to smack them that its attuitudes like theirs that make things hard for my cousin that I love, for people like tara or puzzle or crow who would jump in front of a bus to save their friend but are somehow inherently sinful when there are people that murder and rape and abuse and they can have kids so that makes it okay?

*lets out a deep breath*

[taranova]

^ Tell them you're friends with a hot lesbian named Taylor who gets more pussy in a day than they will in their whole lives. ;D

-hugs- Sorry you had to deal with them. They're dying off, but I'm not a patient person.

[bespecledcow]

Jun 8, 2011 0:11:29 GMT -5 taranova said:

^ Tell them you're friends with a hot lesbian named Taylor who gets more pussy in a day than they will in their whole lives. ;D

Oh my god that is so full of win. Like that made my night. Seriously.

*hugs back* Thanks hun. It just gets hard to deal with. I guess it would almost be different if they were all so completely nice in other ways. One of them literally said that showing your anger was a bad thing to do. It just feels unnatural, and in some ways I feel bad for them cause it was how they were raised, but mostly I just feel pissed. How can you be nice to someone, or give the benefit of the doubt to someone that on multiple occaisions has shown themselves to be an ass, and then be horrible (while still smiling and insisting it is for the better, that they don't hate them) to gays that are honestly nice? GAH.

[PuzzleChick]

*hugs bespecled* I'm sorry you had to listen to that. Intolerance is one of the worst things, because it causes people to be so cruel and to feel justified in doing so. Haven't any of these people who are so quick to condemn due to their religion actually paid attention to the Bible, where it SAYS it is nobody's place to judge another??

Also, the asshats claiming kids with gay parents are unhappy might be interested to note a recent study showed that children of two gay parents were actually often happier. Although they did have a higher instance of bullying and depression where bullying was present, they also said they felt secure in their families, got along with their parents better, were much less likely to be overly rebellious, were more confident and did better in school. The More You Know~

[taranova]

Christianity is a feel-good religion whose patrons have never actually read the bible. They repeat what mummy and daddy and their Sunday School teachers have branded into their skulls, but never actually act upon what they preach. Instead they feel that since they believe in their god anyway, they can insult, antagonize, and hate whomever they feel their god disapproves of.

It's ignorance disguised as love. Don't give them a second thought.

[PuzzleChick]

^ Well, not all Christians are like that. I know some very lovely Christian people who believe in respecting everyone, not judging, helping others, etc. They're some of the nicest people I've met. Unfortunately it's the jerks and cruel ones who seem to outnumber the kind ones, and who are also much more vocal, giving the entire group a bad name. =(

[dearheart]

The resident pastor's kid here dittos that a hundred times over, Puzzle. xD (Thanks for sticking up for the non-jerk-ish, non-hypocritical Christians, lol. We ARE out there, I swear; you just gotta fish around.) The gay issue is a whole can of worms that I don't want to go near with a ten-foot pole, and I know that if I said anything about it, I'd have bricks thrown at my head...but suffice it to say that NOTHING - background, beliefs, race, sexual orientation or anything else - would get in the way of me being friends with someone. My strongest and dearest belief is that God loves EVERYONE, no strings attached, and that it's my job as a Christ-follower to show that love. LOVE COMES FIRST. ALWAYS. PERIOD. (1 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 13, DANGIT!!!)

Come to think of it, I think that's what I despise most. The so-called Christians who give all the other ones a bad name. >.>

Anyway...bespecticled...I'm not sure what else to do besides offer you a huge e-hug. *HUUUUUUGGGGGGG* And if it's any consolation...I fall on the conservative side, and after reading your description of the debate, even I could see how utterly PATHETIC those arguments were. Seriously, they got my teeth grinding... >.< NOT the ones I'd use, ever.

(And this is random, but MAN I LOVE THIS CLUBHOUSE. Doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative, christian or atheist, canon lover or yaoi addict...we still get along and stick up for each other. YOU GUYS ARE SO AWESOME.) :')

[taranova]

EEP. I'm so sorry if that sounded hateful on my part. ;_; I didn't mean to demonize ALL Christians; I suppose what I really hate is fundamentalist dogmatism, and you can get that ANYWHERE, even in atheism. XD I know that lots of Christians are really nice people. Super nice, in some cases.

[dearheart]

Aw, it's alright Tara! *snugs* I figured you didn't mean it like that. No offense taken! (And honestly, sometimes I go off on similar rants about Richard Dawkins, so it's not like I'm totally innocent here either.) xD

Like I said, I LOVE YOU GUYS. COMMENCING GROUP HUG. *grouphughughughughughug...* <3

[taranova]

LMAO. XD

*hugglehugglehuggle*

[PuzzleChick]

Awww, and we love you, Dearheart! <33 I'm really thankful there are people like you out there. *hugs all around*